Major Contentions in AD&D: Part 1?

Debatable AD&D Interpretations

With the OSRIC Kickstarter looming in the new year, many wonder how different it is to AD&D. Further more, with people learning AD&D, questions come up that generate contention. The people who have been stewarding AD&D for newer generations have specific takes on the game. I am writing this blog post as a survival guide for navigating these conversations (or ignoring them).

An interpretation of a rule isn't the same as a house rule if it can be argued as Rules as Written (RAW) or By the Book (BTB). This is a oddly specific but necessary distinction as conversations about how to play AD&D are assumed to be RAW, which makes responding with a house rule without specifying it often like farting in a moment of silence. So people have a subconscious motivation to justify their interpretation as a RAW, which is natural, but some of those cases people are using the Law of Omission to stake a claim under the flag of "well it doesn't specifically say X", which makes things messy.

Messy is what we don't want in teaching spaces, because people are asking direct, often foundational, questions. Some people love watching debates fly, especially if they are wide-eyed first timers, but just as many people are lead to confusion by these common contentions. 

Other interpretations are reasonable readings of the rules, what was said, what wasn't said, and how it dovetails into the rest of the system. They have been debated, cited, counter-cited, and running on the fumes of belief for decades. These aren't posted here to invite debate: that's been done and it's tired. And I have no interest in it, only that people are aware of these. It's for information and reference. I am biased because I am me and this is my blog. These are the Major Contentions in AD&D and they will always be.

Overarching Initiative

First up, is the major one. AD&D Initiative Controversy There isn't a whole lot to say here other than what's written in that linked thread, but some of it's splinter-children result in some of the other major contentions. One of the major differences is that, basically, spill-over segments from actions that did not complete within the 60 seconds of a combat round, complete at the end of the round rather than work their way into the following combat round.

When does casting start in the combat round? 

The debate comes down to: "If the party initiative is 3, then when does the Fireball start casting?" 

I say that on segment 3 you start casting, and finish the end of segment 5. This means you can be interrupted (not merely struck to be unable to cast that round) to lose the spell while being hit on segments 3-5. 

Others say you start on segment 1 and finish segment 5. So you can be interrupted at any time to lose that spell.

Others say you start on segment 1 and finished the end segment 3, which greatly reduces the window of interruption outside of a melee condition.

And others say something else, usually involving not calculating the segment additive of casting time as X-1.

When does movement start in the combat round?

This is a contentious position in that movement cannot be totally free, but how people have walked away from the rulebooks with conclusions has varied quite a bit.

I say that any action that is not contested, that it happens along the timeline of segment to segment play. Therefore, if there is a combat round where your fighter and cleric are in a melee with 4 ogres, but the thief wants to head down the corridor away from the fight to watch the rear, he just goes. He doesn't wait 24 segments into a combat round to move: he just does. 

If he wanted to charge from outside of the room, then nothing is stopping him. He is running at the ogres recklessly and this is taken into account with the charge AC penalty. He begins the movement of his charge on segment 1, he does not wait 24 segments to start.

If he wanted to pull out a potion from his pack, drink it, and then move, I would calculate all of those actions as segment costs. Just like the example in the DMG:

The other point of view, while also being argued as RAW, is simpler to execute. You do the thing you need to do starting on your initiative. This removed some of the potency of a charge attack. And if a charge attack started in a surprise round and didn't complete into the next round, then that's a consideration for the very first point of Overarching Initiative.

How are characters with high dexterity who do not get surprised handled during segments of surprise?

There is a method that says they are simply not surprised. They don't get their own actions, as they don't have surprise. But they don't have the status that surprise would give such as being attacked at the rate of 1 round (or 3 if prepared missile fire) per segment.

There is another one that lets them act in their segment, therefore making the surprise segments a miniature round. 

In terms of game balance, it doesn't differ much in practice, but you are making surprise by a pack of monsters much less threatening if you have a few party members with reaction adjustments that can also react. 

Attacks at the end of a charge are attack routines?

The rulebooks are not clear on whether the attack at the end of a charge is an attack (singular), or an attack routine. I choose attack routines, which benefits haste and dual-wielding, especially at higher levels, and makes monster ambushes a bit more potent. 

When looking at this in conjunction with the surprise rules, I feel that it scales better into the level 8-9 range when monsters need more attack rolls to hit better AC heroes for there to be some attrition. While the special abilities and explosive powers they face can turn the tide of combat against the players easily, melee is one of the things that is the easiest to mitigate if the economy of attacks is too low. Likewise, shoving 200 monsters into rooms shows as a contrivance to the players, where is establishing a two-sided rule that always existed means that you can get your extra economical attack roll balancing naturally. It's also more fun.

Weapon Speed of Natural Attacks

Natural attacks have no weapon speed. Or they are the same as fists. This is a melee initiative tie-breaker issue. If they have no weapon speed, some rule that any weapon with a speed attacks first. Others rule that having no weapon speed, means they attack first.

Natural Weapons vs Weapon Length at the end of a charge

There is support in the DMG to use reach as a decider on what attacks hit first on a charge. But like weapon speed, it's never given any guidance. I have natural attacks return hits on their initiative. Trent over at mystical-trash-heap suggests using 1 foot for every 3 feet of height. 

Minor Honorable Mentions

When do Assassins get Thief Skills?

Assassins function as thieves at two levels lower. Some say that means they don't get thief abilities until level 3. Some say they function as a level 1 thief up until level 3. Others even look at the progression of thief abilities and map it backwards to reduce the rates.

How do we handle monsters with multiple ACs?

There's no direct guidance for fighting, say, a Bulette.

The AC is for different locations. You can randomize it, like firing missiles weapons into melee. But I prefer to just let you say 'yeah I know its tail is weak, I'll attack that this round'. One is going to reward knowledge of a monster (and obtaining it), one is going to make it more difficult by employing chance.

Does Attacking a Turned Undead "Unturn" it?

It's not stated anywhere in the rules exactly, though most people are pretty clear about cornering undead. If they can't flee, they will be cornered and fight back. Now if they flee and have room, I prefer in my games that it breaks the turn for that undead (not all that were turned). Some prefer that they will continue to flee, as if by a failure of morale so that the attacks at the back as they flee are free. And finally, others prefer that undead become useless.

Magic bows firing non-magical Arrows

It doesn't specifically state (and specially states differently on some other missile weapons) that magical bows cause the mundane arrows that are fired to be able to strike as magical weapons. Make sure to put enough ways to get magical ammo into your game if you're like me and don't have the bow enchant the arrow beyond it's +1 to hit and damage effect.

In Conclusion

The rules disagreements come from a weird place, particularly with people who have been running a certain way for decades. These ideas work into their eco-system of interpretations, they are instinctual, and allow them to run smoother games. People who successfully run AD&D campaigns with their particular set of interpretations are often 'correct' too as they have resulted in fun and successful campaigns, making it the ideal. I can only imagine that reading something counter to their ideal as possibly a badwrongfun declaration. It shouldn't be viewed that way. These are rules considerations to be made once you have a handle on the system overall, not infinite branching logic trails to learning the game.

AD&D Combat Example 3

Burlapsack the level 5 fighter (26 hp, AC: 1)

Loudandpreach the level 5 cleric (22 hp, AC: 2)

Darkandmoody the level 5 assassin (15 hp, AC: 3)

Puddlepoop the level 6 thief (16 hp, AC: 5)

The adventurers come upon a chamber, descending downward towards the skeletal statue of Nergal, it's flanked by alcoves set with coffins. They venture further towards the room, but just to the door or top steps. While they are discussing their next action, time has caused a random encounter check, which shows up as 4 gnolls, wearing a crude painted skull on their chests.

Surprise is checked and the party rolls a 2 and is surprised for 2 segments.

Encounter distance is checked and the gnolls are 20 feet away. (2 on a 1d3 x 10 feet)

Surprise segments begin. The thief and the assassin have high dexterity and negate being surprised, entirely. Both have reaction adjustments of -2 and therefore are surprised for 0 segments. The fighter has a reaction adjustment of -1, so he is surprised for 1 segment. *

The gnolls charge. It will take one segment to get into melee range (and charge termination range). Gnolls move at 9", which means per segment they move 9 feet. Charging in a dungeon doubles that, which means they cover 18" a segment, which is more than enough to terminate the charge. 

Each segment of surprise allows full attacks. Both the cleric and the fighter get charged by two gnolls on the first segment of surprise.

Surprise segment 1, the gnolls charging the cleric roll a 2 and a 12, that's a definite miss on the 2. The 12 (+2 for charging, with a THAC0 of 16, means it hits AC 2, which hits the cleric) is a hit. 5 damage is rolled and applied to the cleric.

The gnolls charging the fighter roll an 13 and a 9. The 13 (+2 for charging, with a THAC0 of 16, hits AC 1, which hits the fighter. The 9 is a miss. 3 damage is rolled and applied to the fighter.

Surprise segment 2, the fighter is out of surprise. The cleric is still in. The gnolls no longer have the ability to take bonus attacks on the fighter.

The cleric is attacked two more times. This time, the rolls are 18 and 12. The 18 will hit (THAC0 of 16, hits AC -2) and the 12 (THAC0 of 16, hits AC 4) will miss. 4 more damage is applied to the cleric.

Top of Round 1

We now go into round one just as the disturbance sends ghouls bursting out of the coffins in the west room and skeletons come through the double doors to the north.

The ghouls look like they are about to charge and the skeletons are moving into the melee. Declarations are asked of the party. The assassin will quaff his potion of invisibility. The thief will run up the stairs to join his companions. The cleric will turn undead.

Initiative is rolled. Monsters get a 1 and the party gets a 5, meaning the party acts on segment 1, the monsters act on segment 5. The ghouls all want to charge, but the two most eastern ones have to run around the staircase, so they'll be engaging in melee if they can find a spot. The other 4 will charge.

Segment 1, the fighter attacks, rolls a 19 for 9 damage to the south-most gnoll, killing it. The assassin takes a segment to get out the potion. The thief moves up the stairs. The cleric turns undead and rolls a 14, it has to affect the lowest HD undead first, so he affects the skeleton (rolling a 5 for the amount of undead turned for 6 rounds) and the skeletons immediately flee back north. The ghouls are unaffected but the cleric will be able to turn again since he hasn't failed.

Segment 2, the assassin drinks the potion, but two of the ghouls made it up the steps in their charge (covering the distance required by segment 2). Their attacks are a mixture of hits and misses, causing the assassin 8 damage, but he is able to save vs paralyzation despite being unable to dodge **. The delay on his potion is 2 segments.

Segment 4, the assassin goes invisible.

Segment 5, the gnolls attack, getting no hits on the now-unsurprised fighter and cleric.

The round is finished.

Top of Round 2

The ghouls are crowding up the staircase, but the assassin is now invisible, the cleric is going to turn undead. The assassin is going to hop off the side of the stairs and try to get a more advantageous position away from the ghouls. (speeding through this round since there's nothing new to show).

Initiative is rolled. Monsters get a 4 and the party gets a 3, meaning the party acts on segment 4, the monsters act first on segment 3.

The assassin was technically in melee, so him jumping away is going to open him up to attacks. *** Invisibility has saved him from the blind attacks, however. The rest of the ghouls press in to the rear of the party, unable to charge. The gnolls attack, hitting both the cleric and fighter for 4 points of damage each.

The skeletons are still fleeing. The cleric turns undead again, and the ghouls are turned for 4 rounds, they all flee back into the room. The party elects to not attack them as they flee, which would cancel the turning.

Top of Round 3

This is a busy spot! At the top of the round, a robed man appears at the doorway, shouting at the gnolls in their language just before casting a spell. The cleric is turning undead, the thief is going to throw daggers at the robed man. The assassin is invisible and will wait for the cleric to see if he's successful before sneaking in.

Initiative is rolled, and a 5 comes up for the players, a 2 for the monsters. The party will act on segment 2  and the monsters on segment 5. 

Segment 1, because of the dexterity of the thief, his daggers are thrown at the beginning of the round. He rolls two 8s (THAC0: 19 + 2 missile attack adjustment -5 because range = AC 14, which is a miss on the robed mans AC of 7).

Segment 2, the fighter swings at a gnoll, scoring a 15 which will hit and deals 7 points of damage to the gnoll, which isn't enough to kill it. The cleric turns undead, rolls a 15, and rolls a 7, making all the ghouls flee backward into the west room for 7 rounds.

Segment 3, the assassin waits for the ghouls to leave the staircase.

Segment 4, the assassin could elect to move silently (12' per round, making it about 4 rounds to get to the robed man DMG p19) but opts to take his chances of being heard and moves his normal movement rate to the main room.

Segment 5, the gnolls attack, rolling a 9, 11, and 13 which is not enough to hit the fighter or the cleric. At the end of segment 5 (spells are init + casting time -1 but last of segment), the magic missile from the robed man goes off at the cleric striking him for 12 damage bringing him to 3 hp (22 -5 -4 -12).

Segment 6, the assassin reaches just outside of the melee and decides that he'll continue silently.

Top of Round 4

The robed man is again casting. The cleric can fight now that the undead have been cleared. The thief steps into the melee. The assassin creeps towards the robed man. He'll get into a reasonable spot if his move silently works on the following round since he's only moving 12' per round (which is why he didn't move silently before hand - moving stealthily is very slow).

Initiative comes up 3 on the players roll, 6 on the monsters. Monsters act on segment 3 while the players act on segment 6.

Segment 3, the gnolls attack the cleric rolling a 9 (miss) and a 20 (hit) and score 4 on the cleric. The cleric is at -1 and now unconscious, bleeding out. The other gnoll rolls a 2 which misses.

Segment 4, at the end, the robed man successfully mirror images making 2 copies of himself.

Segment 6, the fighter rolls a 19 and kills a gnoll scoring 5 damage and kills it. The thief rolls a 5 and misses the gnoll.

Top of Round 5

The mirror images are all casting again. The cleric bleeds out. The thief and fighter attack. The assassin, now confused with three possible target, takes his chance at a backstab.

Initiative is rolled and the players score a 4 and the monster score a 4.

Segment 4, the thief/assassin are using short swords, the fighter is using a long sword, which are both faster weapon speeds than the gnolls spears. The thief goes first along with the assassin.

The thief rolls an 18, dealing 6 damage to a gnoll. The fighter rolls a 15 and scores 4 points of damage on that same gnoll bringing another gnoll down.

The assassin rolls to strike a clone, rolling a 1:3 (we say roll a 1 or 2 on a D6 and you get the right one, he rolls a 2) chance to strike the correct one with his to-hit roll of 16. He lucks out, hits the right clone in the middle of casting a lightning bolt (which would have happened at the end of segment 6) and deals 12 damage to the robed man, bringing him down.

The gnoll gets to roll, scores a 5, hitting nothing.

Now the party has to finish off the gnoll and stabilize the cleric before the undead come rushing back soon.

* BTB there is no distinction of what it means to not be a surprised individual of a surprised party, but here we make surprise a status effect. Surprise being: can be attacked during surprise segments, cannot use dexterity for AC (kind of optional), cannot use shields (optional). With this, it makes surprise segments resolve faster, rather than be micro rounds that take just as long as a combat round to resolve in real time, and surprised players can start acting sooner.

The alternative is to allow unsurprised characters react, fight, attack, cast, etc during surprise segments. In this example, we'd have to determine the order of action for the Gnolls and the party members on each segment and resolve them thusly.

**  I will not allow a dex bonus when someone is trying to do something other than concentrate on fighting.

*** All fleeing and charging happen at the top of the round.

New Adventure Site Contest II is ready to go!

 https://coldlightrpgpress.weebly.com/home/adventure-site-contest-ii-purpose-and-standards

Ben runs a great contest. These community contests are the new bedrock of our community. I don't have the time to write something fresh myself, but if you got good ideas floating around in your head, you should have at it.

Best of luck!

AD&D Terms: Attack Routines (and Rate of Fire) and You

This had come up during conversations about what is and isn't an attack routine, how it factors into multiple attacks in a round, when they occur, and what can further be extrapolated from defining an attack routine. I had written a draft and bounced it off EOTB. He took the time to spell out some very important distinctions that I hadn't, so a huge share of the credit goes to him!

Attack Routines

Let's properly define an attack routine with EOTB's help stolen text. The AD&D 1e DMG defines attack routines as "the attack or attacks usual to the creature concerned, i.e. a weapon (or weapons) for a character, a claw/claw/bite routine for a bear...".  Having multiple attacks routines is different than merely having multiple attacks. Using this definition:

• A ghoul's claw/claw/bite is a single attack routine
• A 0-level man-at-arms shooting two arrows in a round from a short bow is a single attack routine because anyone who can use a bow gets two attacks per round with that weapon (presuming sufficient ammo)
• But a higher level fighter using a two-handed sword to attack twice per round is an example of multiple attack routines - two routines in this case - because a normal human (or elf or half-orc) attacking with a two handed sword only gets one attack per round; i.e., one attack per round is the number of attacks "ususal to...a [two-handed sword] for a character"

Normally for players, getting the benefit of multiple attack routines will be due to either 

• Exceptional skill with melee weapons, such as having gained a high level in the fighter class - this is exemplified by the "Attacks Per Melee Round" table on pg. 25 of the 1E PHB
• A magical increase in the character's action economy such as receiving a haste spell, drinking potion of speed, etc. - note such magic is the only way to increase missile weapon attack routines; a hasted giant could throw two boulders per round, an elf who drank a potion of speed could shoot two arrows twice per round, etc.
• Investing in weapon specialization (if used) in a melee weapon*

Combatants having multiple attack routines are eligible for special combat rules, which can be summarized as having an initiative advantage over anyone having fewer attack routines. In short, the greater attacks go first. Equal attacks are initiative decided. Everything weaves in for alternating sides.

The Details on Multiple Attack Routines

Anyone having initiative advantage goes before anyone not having initiative advantage - the initiative roll doesn't even matter in this situation.  If you have a hasted 2nd level fighter attacking twice per round - presuming his action choice for the round is to make melee attacks and that is a valid choice for the circumstances - then that fighter goes first, automatically, even if his side otherwise rolled a losing initiative die result.  After the fighter has attacked once, everyone else plays out the rest of the round according to the normal initiative process/result.  Then, at the end of the round, the hasted fighter makes another melee attack and the round ends.

If you have one side with a 2nd level fighter ("Harry") going against a high level fighter ("Chad Lord"), then Chad Lords attacks per round gives the attacking first benefit:

Example: Harry (italicized) wins initiative with a "5" and Chad Lord (bolded) loses initiative with a "2". 

The initiative doesn't matter. As he enjoys multiple attacks per round, Chad Lord will strike first, then Harry, then Chad Lord again. (FIRST, SECOND, THIRD)

The only time initiative rolls matter to these characters is if both sides have combatants with this sort of initiative advantage. 

Same example: but with Harry under the effects of a Haste spell. Both combatants attacks per round are 2/1. Using the same initiative rolls as above, Harry goes first. (FIRST, SECOND, THIRD, FOURTH)

Getting more advanced, if you have one side with that hasted 2nd level fighter ("Hasted Harry") and also a thief with a short sword of quickness ("Tricky Dick") going against a group led by a high level fighter ("Chad Lord"), all three of these characters might enjoy the benefit of "going first" due to multiple attack routines or other magic.  

In this case, the initiative results are used to order only these three combatant's attacks - the first attacks of each all going before anyone not having a "going first in the round" initiative advantage - and afterwards the remaining combatants going in normal order according to their action choices and the pertaining initiative die results.  Lastly, all those with extra routines remaining (which in this case is only the hasted fighter and the high level fighter as the short sword grants "first in the round" but not extra attacks per round) go again for their last attacks, in the same order between them as in the beginning of the round.

Example: Hasted Harry's group wins initiative with a "5" and Chad Lord's group loses initiative with a "2".  Everyone is able to make melee attacks without any movement needed.

• Hasted Harry and Tricky Dick each roll a melee attack
• Chad Lord rolls a melee attack
• Their two groups go in the action order dictated by their action choice and initiative rolls
• Hasted Harry makes his final attack (no further attack for Tricky Dick as he didn't have multiple attack routines, only a special sword power)
• Chad Lord makes his final attack
• The round ends

The vast majority of table play utilizing this rule will be situations like the above where one or more combatants has two routines while other combatants have only a single routine - but there are rules for scaling this up when that is necessary.  Don't worry about wrapping your head around how ultra-high level characters juiced up on magical 'roids granting them many attack routines interact with each other right now - just concentrate on the basics.  If you're comfortable running the basics, the other will make sense when it arises in play.  

Final Notes

Haste

It should also be noted what Haste actually does. If you read the text of the spell, haste doubles the attack rate. If a fighter has an attack rate of 3/2, they would then have 3/1. A weretiger having an attack routine of 3 (1-4/1-4/1-12), they would double that. Likewise, they should be following the FIRST...LAST model of when attacks occur within a melee round.

A note on slow is that it also specifies attack rates. This means that a monster with a 3 attack routine would attack one routine every two rounds. A fighter with an attack rate of 3/2 would attack 3/4 rounds. 

Breaking off from Melee

It's worth mentioning that breaking off from melee is granted an attack routine.

So there you have it. An attack isn't an attack routine. A ghoul or a lion jumping on you does all three. Carrion Crawlers fuck over one person most likely. Fleeing from an Owlbear means that they get their whole routine and has better statistical chances to grab/hug a fleeing character. Fleeing from a high level fighter means they get to hit you just once.

Not Just Low Levels, All Levels, Part 1: Training

The B/X, BECMI, 2e, WotC-D&D people who learned the game, learned to operate almost to instinct. It's how rules-light games can get away with being so full of omission - It's assumed that someone has the internal information of D&D enough to fill in the ugly additional text of defining how common activities that happen in most games like charging, firing an arrow at the ogre fighting your friend, what happens to your potions when you get hit by a fireball, and how to level. 

[EDIT: There is an optional rule in 2e for training, much more diminished, but that's a whole nest of how experience is rewarded in that system by default, which I don't wish to explore here.]

Of course, not all oranges are created as apples, so often you see principles of a one fruit applied to the other. Apple juice isn't all that bad, but I'm sure orange pie might suck.

Training is one of those rules that isn't explored in those other editions, among other problems with fulfilling the 'Not Just Low Levels, All Levels' of Fantasy Adventure Gaming that I'll make every attempt to get to, with detail, in another blog post.

XP for Gold is the Cart, But What Tows It?

Training is an economic beast of burden that helps drive the game beyond 'this the dungeon, you want to play tonight since you drove over here, so say yes to doing it or go home'. If XP for Gold is the cart that drives old school gaming, and Fantasy Adventure Gaming is a long road, then there are horses that need to pull that cart on a long road. 

We strive to offer a game where wealth can be built, but money always matters. It keeps adventurers hungry, which keeps the cart moving until such a level that expenses of strongholds and magical research alone can take over. Otherwise, you will end up floating towards a game of cash in, but very little cash out once you get to the mid levels. From about level 4 to 8, a lot of money can be gathered up and not spent.

I can't wait to give this to someone else!

Training doesn't show much of it's benefit before level 5 to the game economy overall. In fact, during the first four levels, it's expected that some training will be provided as a service or XP gains will get caught in the pipes until such a time that the party can afford it. This means lost XP or this means sprinkling a few services/items throughout your campaign to let some of the air out. That depends on how much you want to facilitate advancement in your game. Personally, I live for the mid-high levels. We all have done so many low-level jaunts that it's just less exciting at this point, to me. It's still great gaming for the most part, but it's not a place my groups want to linger. 

And by the way, that's another decision point added to the game. The group might all be ready to level due to experience requirements, but they can only facilitate three people leveling up. Who should it be? How does the party best benefit from that? Who is in the most danger of hitting an XP cap where it's lost? 

Oh God, Math Again?

There's math behind the economy of the Fantasy Adventure Game. First, lets look at  what a few commonly agreed upon adventures reward with. I already know what the ratio is from playing the game, but I think it's worth spending a little time to take reward structures out of the equation. Whether or not a party survives or finds every last room is irrelevant, since we're really looking for a ratio here.

Starting with T1 - The Village of Hommlet. I went through just the Ruins of the Moathouse and just wanted to confirm some rough numbers. I left out some copper and silver for sure and the potential of any random encounter. About 34K xp in the moathouse, over 27k of it gp. 11k magic items for a total of 45k xp potential, unless magic items are sold, then gold is higher. 60%. Much higher when magic items are sold instead of kept.

In WG4 - Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun, I used the main complex without random encounters. That has ballpark 170,000 xp. Over  roughly 142,000 is gp. Only 26k of it is monster xp. That comes out to 83% or so gold ratio.

Given my own experience and looking at other modules along the same lines, but not exhaustively cataloging each one (and I'm not doing that, I'm only verifying a conservative ballpark here), I think we can safely say that at least 60% of experience points come from money. But what about magic items?

One of the more interesting decision points is what to do with looted magical items. When you're level 1, but can sell a Ring of Protection +1 for 10k gp, that's a temptation. That's training cost and xp for everyone and it's 1 more AC and saves for a character. You want both, but what's better long term? What's better short term?

When you get to mid-levels, you ARE going to find items that you don't want to use. A sword +1 isn't going to replace your Flametongue, but can someone else use it? Should you save it for Henchmen? Or is that 2,000 gp more preferable. What about your fifth dagger +1? Or that Military Pick that nobody wants to take the weapon proficiency on? 

I can comfortably say, with experience, that in AD&D you can assume, at least, an extra 5% minimum for gp income just from magic items. Sometimes that Robe of Useful Items is more useful as 15k gp. More realistically, it's about 10-11% but we're only trying to make a point here. A point, by the way, that doesn't apply to most other systems. 

With Money Being 65% of XP on Average, What Does That Mean?

An average 4th level party will need about 39,000 xp. An extremely conservative estimate will be about 25,000 gp income earned to get to that point. Armor/hirelings/living expenses will be about 3,200 gp on the high end (I am being very liberal with expenses here), barring any exception of a major expense. Training for five level 4's is 22,500 gp. 

With training, this part is a small deficit in the parties finances, someone might have to wait a session so they can find more treasure, a magic item may need to be sold, or a service performed. Without training to get there, they are sitting on 22,500 gp at level 4. About 195,000 gp at level 7. A 7th level group that has gone through training will have about 58,000 gp with a 52,500 bill for training at the next level looming and much more of a reason to drop thousands of raise dead and restoration.  Not to mention any Stronghold and research fees that are sure to come. 

The Scale of Income and Expense

Adventures are nice and hungry. How exciting is it to find a 5,000 gp gem for the group, at the level 4 or 7 range, that has training costs vs ones who do not? For adventure games, it's about the long term and for people who aren't used to playing for the long term, there's some habits that could be learned.

 How big of an impact is a 4,500 gp Raise Dead when you have 100k laying around? How big of a deal is a 70,000 gp restoration bill when that decision is almost every cent you have, or just a quarter of it?

These aren't really the kinds of things that make themselves apparent by just playing through B2.

With roughly 60% of the xp coming from wealth, more when (not if) magic items are sold, if not training then there's probably a more preferable way to offset the fact that after expenses a reasonably well-played level 7 party will just have about 200k gold laying around after hirelings and living expenses. 

And since each player should have multiple characters, what is the impact for them having access to the pool of such vast income? What is the impact of having no resources to draw from and needing to also make their own. 

Alternatives

If you're playing to run the expanse of all levels, you should have a way to account for that beyond the relatively minor living expenses. Melans system of dividing by 5, then blowing it (basically wasting it) for 5x xp is one of the better alternatives with some in world accounting (like how much are clerical services, surely not the same). Basically, anything around the carousing rules is pretty good if you can account for the windfall of xp on the front end or back end like Melan does. I believe this to be the best alternative.

The silver standard is another one that multiplies in-world costs effectively by 5. You can apply this same principle to any game where the default xp currency is diminished. There will be decisions on what costs "the same as gp, but make it sp". That's for for you to figure out, or find someone who's done it successfully. I'm not that guy.

Whatever you do, as with all Fantasy Adventure Gaming endeavors, don't just think about the now, think about the future of the campaign.

Final Thoughts on Training

There is a converse to the complete training rules, which is the ratings, which is something I don't do. It's hard to quantify and nail down. We could attempt to add some real metrics, and I think there are some exception ones, but that is a whole other topic. As written, I don't subscribe to it. But as an idea, I think there's something there. If nothing else, there may be a way to mental gymnastics your way into not having to require services for your trainers.

Also I never mentioned this above, but your adventurers may not have a trainer available. That can also create decision points. The Monk may have to pilgrimage to the monastery, the magic-user might need to go to the big city to introducing himself to an esoteric order, etc. World building stuff. 

But there is another push for training, which is required downtime which adds it's own elements of the games. Time matters and training helps move that in the direction of world events, dungeon restocking, encouraging the play of other characters, etc. But that's another blog post for another day.

Spire Development Log 3 - Art and Layout

As mentioned in the blog on mapping, my first taste of writing for someone else came from participating in the NAP2 contest. Part of the expectation that I had was that we should include art of some sort with a submission. I figured, based on what I had seen before, at least cover art. But to be completely honest, I figured this would be a contest for the masses and that the competition would have been between mere mortals with little to no experience. The front cover (and back) was AI art. AI are was new, it was exciting, and I didn't see any harm in using it. 

This is going to be the thumbnail now and that bothers me.

There's a few minor images I digitally made based on real images, which honestly suck. But it was just to break up the text and make the google doc export of a pdf  come out clean. 

Yyyyikes.

Though, to be fair, my peers also had a similar output. Except for some which went that extra mile. That contest was like 2/3s normal dickholes like myself, and 1/3 people who already had things published in the past and had a much firmer grip on what they were doing. Prince didn't discriminate and why should he? The better the entries, the better the compilation. The better the compilation, the more successful the project. In that project, there was a number of people who had their layout and even artistic additions spot on. I don't feel like I did the worst in that category, but I felt that I could do better.

I was already a big fan of Castle Xyntillan and thought that the format, as well as the imagination that went into it, were unparalleled. The way I wrote rooms really reached towards emulating that fantastic balance of friendly access and thorough information with actual complete sentences. But my influence on how I wanted my stuff to look didn't stop there.

I had Gunderholfen and I thought it was a very well produced and massive dungeon. It was heads and shoulders better than a lot of produced stuff out there. More importantly, I had learned that Hawk had done his own art and layout.  It showed me that I could labor-of-love my stuff to present so much better. Without me pouring over Gunderholfen and Bottomless Pit of Zorth, I don't know if this would ever click with me, but allow me to reiterate:

You don't need a guy doing your layout. And you might not need a guy doing your art. And if you do, a lot of good OSR guys have shown pretty good success in those art packages that you can purchase the rights to. A small investment for some solid, real art.

When I was a teen, I drew all the time. I was okay at it, definitely not talented (which is par for me).  Once I had decided that I wanted to balloon the concepts of Spire out into a setting and write more, I picked up a pencil and started. I needed art, because it helps lengthy writing to have a place where your eyes can take a break. Also, I wanted to give visual context to some of the stuff in there. And if it didn't work out, I could buy some.

That was the first stab at it. Amateurish? Definitely. Charming? Yeah. It was good enough to keep at it. I got some gap-filler art done and I was feeling like I could really do it.

I was shopping around for how to do more with layouts than Google Docs could provide and I took stabs at a variety of things until I landed on Affinity Publisher. I set on putting Spire 1 together, identifying where I'd need more art and trying to get something that would be easy to run at the table. Like most things, the first attempt wasn't quite there. I rode that format for Spire 1 and 2, and even ordered a hard copy of Spire 1.

Poor edits aside, this original format was A5. For some reason, I thought it would be better presented in a smaller format. Page headers were more of me 'wow, this program can do this thing, I should try it.' which is never a good reason. The font is cool and all, but when you look at it from a distance, it didn't work for me. I got my proof of the book in the mail and I tried running games out of it. It didn't work for a whole bunch of reasons.

• The book dimensions with it's relative thickness would not stay open at the table.
• The font became a garbled mess when viewed as a page-flip.
• The I's look like 1's and the same in reverse. 
• The page headers made the whole book feel like a notebook. There was also a stark difference in the exploding skull-moon image in the middle and the corner things that I drew.
• There wasn't enough on each page that let me comfortably rest on one spread for a long enough time.
• This thing was not edited well at all.

I kept at it with the art in the meantime. If I could balance my wrist aches with doing it to relax while re-watching x-files, then I could keep cranking them out. Over the course of well over a year, I ended up with stacks of illustrations. Some better than others. I tried different methods and found what I felt worked and what didn't.

I would improve in some areas only to realize that I was still poor in others. I was both judgmental on myself, while also forgiving. This kind of art will never stand up to the likes of those who are professional, but I felt that they still worked for the stuff I was making.

I used the original proof book to circle typos with a pencil, but ultimately I could barely do that. I ended up reformatting the entire two Spire books into v2. A4 size in all it's 8.5x11 glory. I did away with the page headers and chose better fonts. I ordered two proofs, Spire 1 and Lich Valley, and was mostly satisfied with a lot of my choices, but ultimately I pushed myself further into a cleaner format.

I felt pretty good about it and only recently refined it for Lich Valley. The art still goes, when my wrist allows. And thankfully, there aren't that much more pieces needed. The more pressing need is to clean it up, rewrite a few areas that don't work, and figure all that out via at-the-table testing, which my friends have been great to do.

Queen Dinitra, who relied too much on the aid of Hell.

A word about burn out. This hobby, especially this corner of it, isn't meant for most of us to profit on, even with just exposure. There's a select few who can manage it, and that's another topic, but the point is that you don't have to write anything. You are likely not going to pay bills with this, but you are likely to burn yourself out on it. Take time for yourself. I've burnt out on these books, in the last 2 years, twice already. Do it right and as well as you can. Take a lot of pride in it because it feels good and see it through because it's fun.

It'll be ready when it's ready. And with that, I'll leave you with a pair of Dusk Bats running through the streets of Cabur within the Lich Valley.

 

Don't Read These Play Reports

Intro

Note that these are pretty short sessions mostly. The last session was just under 2 hours and the other sessions were 3 hours. The in person game tends to run longer, the IRL pickup games even run longer, but I don't want to write the results of that campaign out since others might be playing through the same content.

This takes place after a break from a previous campaign. The characters are all upper mid level and have survived the imprisonment of the Dream Cult, the stronghold of the brain entity (a very modified T1), the horrors of the Howling Exile, Melan's Smuggers Run (the gravewight is still out there!), fought through the Crystal Caves to the Undercrypts of the Imprisoned Vampires, rid themselves of the Thrice Cursed Sword from the Red Mound (also Melans), through to the proud stag-warriors of the Northern Needle, travelling through to multiple outer planes (a near endless staircase inside a ziggurat in a blasted hades, a icy wastes of the frost wurm, etc), the underdungeon of the elven shrine, and finally putting the Dream Cult to rest. 

The resumption of the campaign would bring them across continents. From the campaign world we've been using for decades, across the sea to north of the Spire Kingdom. Choosing not to travel the wastelands and then the oceans, the group opted for a remote elven shrine in the mountains where it was rumored that a teleporter was once in use to connect the continents. It was a rough idea I had two years ago and I had to get a bridging adventure set up since I knew that's where they'd head. 

I wrote the Elven Shrine that surrounds the top of a waterfall in a few nights and figured it would be a good back-in-the-saddle adventure to get our group back into the groove and transition us to the content of Lich Valley properly (which they didn't actually touch until the third session, so I was about right on target).

Part 1

On a rainy journey, the group traveled through the mountain pass north of their keep. Before a small valley, they encountered Lasher, the sometimes-helpful giant Mimic who exchanges information for meat. They learned about Ogres and Trolls in the small valley.

They came across a camp of ogres outside of a cave roasting and cannibalizing one of their own. The party quickly thins out the ogres as a pair of trolls bound out of the cave and get roasted by a wall of fire and a rain of arrows. The caves and corpses were looted and the party was on their way.

The party made their way through the rest of the valley to the wedge between two mountains that lead up to a roaring waterfall topped with a pair of statues of the Elf Sovereigns. A staircase fashioned out of the stone leads a long way toward the waterfall, where a small worn cave allows for some convenient resting before entering the Elf Kings Tomb in search of the way to Lich Valley.

Entering the complex, the group surmises three possible paths. One through the calcified dead, one past the marble cloaked statues with faces of swirling black smoke, and across the cavernous lake to a glowing winged statue. Daisy, flying above the lake, sees the heat form of something massive swimming counter-clockwise under the surface. 

The group decimated the calcified dead and entered the hall where they came across the chained door and a door bas-reliefed with an ornate elfin crown. They vanquished a pair of priestly wights before any level drains can occur then proceeded through the room to the north.

Advancing through the room, the statues moved to intercept the intruders. Combat is joined and the Undead Elf King awoke from the sarcophagus, paralyzing Jaque and Daisy in fear. Bastian and Kira fought in the room as the Elf King attempted to blast them with magic. Doran hurled some high tier magic missiles at it while Bastian rushed to melee it in. Finally, Daisy and Jaque freed themselves in fear after the King went down and finished the remaining statue.

Treasure total:

• Gems total value: 3560 gp.
• 900 gp
• elfin chain
• 8000 gp, Potion, Scroll, Potion, Magical Plate Armor , Magical Splint Mail, Wand

Monsters defeated:

• 5 Ogres
• 2 Trolls
• 9 Calcified Dead
• 2 Wights
• 2 Greater Stone Guardians
• 1 Elf King

Part 2

The party left the crypts to hear, through the sounds of rushing water to the west, an echoing screeching. A cacophony of hoots answered it. The chained door still sat to the south.

They investigated a locked and stuck door. Once they made enough noise trying to knock it open, after a failed lockpicking, the hooting started up again from the north west.

A voice from behind the chained door spoke. "It sounds like you need my help." The party considered it as they talked through the door at the thing.

They finally set their eyes on the door to the north and got through the lockpick with Bastians luck. Inside, two high back chairs sit on opposite sides of a round table, ashes and bone sit in a pile on each. Empty torch sconces along the east and west walls show an origin point to a massive flame.

The party found a fork.

The hooting got louder and the thing behind the door talked the party into freeing them, prompted by the appearance of a single orange-black demon orangutans, the Bar-lgura. Dorian stone shaped the door to free the thing.

One Bar-lgura charged and realizing Kiras protection from evil, deviated towards Bastion. Jaques and Bastian faced off against it as more appeared out of thin air. One telekinesis'd Kira, sliding her up and down the wall against her will.

The stoneshape spell of Dorians completed and out stepped a huge cloaked form, cords of muscle on his night-black skin. A stained blindfold covered his eyes but he steps forward with clawed feet confidently.

On the next round he lifted his blindfold and death-gazed a bar-lgura. The parties strength quickly overwhelmed the weaker demons readily and the proceeded to the next room to the north after the Bodak left on his own, advising of the direction to the portal they were after, and giving them a final warning:

"Whatever it is you're doing here, you might make haste. I can smell their sickening fur."

In room to the north, Wooden elven mannequins are posed as people having some sort of dinner party. Some are are frozen in mid-gesture as if caught mid-conversation. They saw dust patterns that led them to see that there was a secret door to the north where a crazed wizard dwelled.

They ended up knocking out the wizard, taking his wand and spellbook, and came back for him later as they further investigated. They also found he had a magical table that produced fresh food daily, but excremented gleefully in the halls of the elven tomb only for something to come along and take it.

They found a room of pine coffins, corpses smashed inside. They found a letter on a corpse that detailed the crazed wizards mistake on summoning the Bodak and has been in hiding ever since and how knight that accompanied him fell, but knew he was doomed.

They also found the room of pillars and quickly surmised the puzzle of spelling O P E N to find the way towards the main chamber foyer. This chamber was littered with dried wine casks where rats have nest in the corner, seemingly tunneled in from a break in the north.

In between, they discovered some rats hoarding a severed hand with a magic ring. Bastion used his animal speech to convince them to give it to him. And they warned them of the vengeful elf spirits in the main chamber beyond.

They retrieved the wizard and the fighter was able to pretend he was the fallen companion of his from long ago. It was not difficult, given the wizards crazed state. He agreed to accompany them, lamenting how long it's been since he's seen the sun.

They proceeded into the main chamber and the phantasmal elven dead rushed to attack, attempting to age them with their vile touch. They had a cloaked one among them, who positioned itself to cast spells.

But the party had spells of their own. Melee was met by some, as other phantasmal elves started melding through the walls of the carefully chosen chokepoint. Melee flurried as the halfling, Daisy, rained arrows from above. A fireball finished off the bulk of the vengeful dead, but the cowled figure had a perfectly lined up lightning bolt that singed the party badly. 

Some charges occurred in the next round and the caster lost it's spell and fell to the flurry of blows. Seeing that they could go back south to the water where a great beast dwelled, or north, they also noticed that a door to the east had an oily black pooling seeping out. Recognizing this as a black pudding, the party wasted no time to the north, through double-doors flanked by marble elven statues with the heads replaced by crude granite arachnid heads.

Heading through the north hall, they found two eastern branches. One roughly eroded that had the sound of rushing water, no doubt leading back to the central waterfall. The other leading to a room with an apparent barrier of white light, filled with motes of thick dust. A table and rectangular object floating within. Straight ahead was a blue translucent barrier, which behind held a horribly monstrous arachnid form with cleaver-like fore-legs. It seems that no magic could go through the barrier and the creature could not cross it, himself. The portal the party sought was right behind the monster, a wall of force in between them.

Treasure

• Wand of Wonder 16 charges
• Spellbook of Thrubora, The Magnificent
• 13 sapphire 100 gp ea
• 6 ceremonial dagger 150 ea
• Magical ring

Monsters defeated:

• 5 Barlgura
• 1 Very depressed Wizard
• 6 Phantasmal Vengeful Elves
• 1 Phantasmal Wizard

Part 3

Very short session...

The group was resource dried and in need of a round of healing. They decided to take their chances camping out in the secret living quarters. Able to avoid random occurrences through the night, the party directly confronted the Retriever, the massive spider-like beast that guarded the portal. While Jaques took a heavy heat ray directly, the action economy of 5 adventurers versus one thing did not let him get a second round.

The party stepped through the portal, blinded by the light, and finding themselves a few hours short of twilight on the mountain side overlooking a massive tortoise with buildings set on top of it in the distance.

Making their way through the forested trails down the mountain, the party encountered a clearing where moss-covered stones carpeted the ground. At the center sat a stone fire ring. Encircling the fire ring were three majestic elven statues, carved from shimmering marble. Each statue held a space where something once resided in their clasped hands. 

Eventually, Kira fashioned make-shift torches that were placed into the hands of the statues. This caused a flame to spring forth from the stone ring accompanied by the smell of pines and lilacs. It lasted for 10 hours, keeping some shadow mastiffs at bay later that night. Though a few did get fireballed to chase them off.

Finally, they arrived at Glenhaven. A lower town under the massive tortoise with a portal that transported to the upper town. Along the way, town crier walked down the street ringing a bell. He announced that the Glenhaven has placed a bounty of 3000 gold pieces for the capture of a thief named Derthag Alk. Derthag has stolen the symbolic scythe from The Jagged Scythe.

In the upper city, Bastion learned about the dwarven saying 'skin of the snake' as a way to remember how the snake-men and troglodytes took their homeland long ago in the north edge of the valley.

Kira, working with Priestess Isabelle of the Light learned of  farmers to the north, south of the Heribyr river bend, have banded together, giving offerings to the spirit of the tall grass to protect the healthy livestock and crops.

Hooks are in bold.

Treasure

• Magic Quiver
• Magic Short Sword
• Magic Dice

Monsters defeated:

• 5 Shadow Mastiffs... kinda
• 1 Retriever